A stark picture of the truth of America

"ImmoralMinority" (araimondo) 11/07/2018 at 01:24 • Filed to: None

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This picture shows starkly that the deepest division in America is not racial. It is urban vs. rural.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > ImmoralMinority 11/07/2018 at 01:40

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I think the deepest division would still be the billionaires vs the rest of us, but we’d prefer to fight amongst ourselves between two absolutes and ignore the men behind the one-way mirror in the other room.

I mean... Paseo convertible.

Nauraushaun > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 11/07/2018 at 01:45

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Also, Sera

As an Australian I find Oppo to be very confusing and uninteresting today. Except that car show with all the French stuff, that was fucked

atfsgeoff > ImmoralMinority 11/07/2018 at 01:57

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This is not new information, it’s been this way for decades.

People who live on big plots of land tend to be mostly self reliant and depend on neighbors/family as a safety net when things go sour. Thus they vote for the people who make promises to keep government as far out of their lives as possible.

City dwellers, for better or worse, depend on government for a lot more in terms of critical infrastructure, social services, public transportation, etc. Thus they tend to vote for people who promise to improve and expand government services and infrastructure.

facw > ImmoralMinority 11/07/2018 at 01:58

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Yep the whole Red State/Blue State thing obscures that we are considerably more mixed together than many people think. Our political system really isn’t very well suited to it.

Rico > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 11/07/2018 at 02:01

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The Govt  will be visiting you shortly for a little chat.

Tristan > atfsgeoff 11/07/2018 at 02:04

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1, 000% this.

Berang > ImmoralMinority 11/07/2018 at 02:27

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Red areas all are places where nobody lives. I love when republicans post these maps and brag about how much of the country is red - completely forgoing any mention of the fact that like four people per square mile occupy most of those red spaces.

facw > atfsgeoff 11/07/2018 at 02:33

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Note though that despite that narrative , states primarily populated by those self-reliant rural types generally receive more funding from the federal govern ment than they pay in , while those dense, government- dependent, urban dominated states generally pay in more than they receive in benefits.

It would be interesting to see that information at a more granular level, of course, but I haven’t been able to find anything with that level of granularity.

Here’s an article that discusses some of the causes of the disparity:  Which States Are Givers and Which Are Takers?

Berang > atfsgeoff 11/07/2018 at 02:50

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People in rural areas also tend to be more insular, a polite way of saying ignorant and uninterested in matters that don’t immediately pertain to themselves.

Telling them the city folk just want to steal their money and enrich themselves has been a favorite tactic of politicians of widely varying political leanings around the globe. Why? Because it works most of the time on people with no real understanding of what the world is like for most people in their society.

Distraxi's idea of perfection is a Jagroen > ImmoralMinority 11/07/2018 at 04:20

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Looking at it from outside, it feels like you can’t be too far from a big enough gap having opened in the center to leave space for a third, moderate, party to come into existence. Ideally named the “Oh F or F ucks S ake P eople, Get A Grip ” P arty.

AC2 - The Now 15 Year Old Jalop > ImmoralMinority 11/07/2018 at 04:36

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Where’s the cover pic?

CalzoneGolem > facw 11/07/2018 at 05:59

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2 parties is some bullshit

CalzoneGolem > ImmoralMinority 11/07/2018 at 06:00

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Except you don't get much more rural than Maine.

wkiernan > ImmoralMinority 11/07/2018 at 06:19

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“Rural” my ass. “Rural” means “out in the countryside.” But the majority of the citizens in those red states live in cities and towns, just like the majority of the citizens in the blue areas.

Y o u k n o w w he r e t h e r e a l d i v i s i o n i s , e v e r y o n e w i t h a n o u n c e o f s e n s e k n o w s w h e r e t h e d i v i s i o n i s , y o u j u s t c h o o s e t o p u t o n a b i g p h o n y a c t l i k e y o u d o n ’ t k n o w .

Sovande > ImmoralMinority 11/07/2018 at 06:54

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Have you ever spent anytime in Ohio, for instance? That was where I learned what true, ignorant racism is. I grew up outside DC, went to a predominantly black high school and while there was occasionally racial tension, it was not overt or overreaching. The second night at my small, liberal arts college in the middle of nowhere Ohio a farm kid from nearby Shitheadsville , after learning where I had grown up and gone to high school, said to me “What was it like going to school with all those n*****s?”

It was eye opening.

This country is well and truly fucked. If you think it’s bad now, buckle up. When limited legislation can be passed by the current administration the result will be two solid years of scare tactics, racism, misogyny, xenophobia, isolationism and hate. Those Republicans who managed to hold their seats in tight races will lean further to the Right in a last grasp attempt at relevance as the Left pours on the rhetoric.  It’s going to get worse before it gets better.

ADabOfOppo; Gone Plaid (Instructables Can Be Confusable) > Sovande 11/07/2018 at 07:32

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From Ohio. Can confirm we're fucked.

Monkey B > ImmoralMinority 11/07/2018 at 07:42

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Fox news. It’s ratings double the other two combined. They spew misinformation, support the agenda of right wing nuts and are truly a major reason for the climate of our political landscape.

When news is treated as entertainment there are going to be problems. As such it shouldn’t be called news at all with a constant disclaimer ticker on screen that it is not news.

The people who watch Fox news hold what they say the same way they do the Bible...it has to be true because it’s what they believe in. Facts be damned.

Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero > facw 11/07/2018 at 08:01

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yup, if it werent for Chicago, Illinois would be a red state easy

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > CalzoneGolem 11/07/2018 at 08:12

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While instant runoff voting has some flaws, it’s still miles ahead of what we have. I don’t know that we’ll ever get it though since neither party would want that.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > ImmoralMinority 11/07/2018 at 08:22

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In my neck of the woods, I think the takeaway could be boiled down to that too, but if you look deeper, there is a larger conversation. In michigan, we largely voted republicans to the house. This isn’t a surprise as Michigan is actually largely rural outside of southeast MI. So our election map looks like this:

But looking at the votes for the governor, and you see a different story

It’s a bit of a patchwork state from this view and it suggests a lot of split tickets in the state. And talking to others, a LOT of people are behind similar ideas. Our propositions this election were all voted on and passed with a 10% margin or more. The vote to have an independent board decide district lines passed by something like 70% approval or more!

My view is that yes, there is a divide, and it’s been made as vast as it has ever been. But I think people are pulling it back in and coming back together. Again though, that’s just my area and what I see and hear going on here.

Matt Nichelson > ImmoralMinority 11/07/2018 at 08:36

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It may be that way in some places, but in  Mississippi it is absolutely racial. The blue area we have (Mississippi Delta) is the same blue area it has always been. It’s very rural with predominantly cotton fields and catfish farms and it is mostly made up of African Americans.

DipodomysDeserti > ImmoralMinority 11/07/2018 at 08:39

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Yeah, southern and northeastern   Arizona are so cosmopolitan...

There’s definitely no racial or class aspect to the rich white guys in Scottsdale, Gilbert and Chandler driving around with “Blue Lives Matter” stickers on their cars. And the Trump protesters in Phoenix last year telling brown people to go “make my burrito, bitch” was just economically stressed after losing his job at Filibertos. As for Trump supporter yelling antisemitic epithets at reporters, just rural stuff (in the fifth largest city in the US).

BigBlock440 > Berang 11/07/2018 at 08:54

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Telling them the city folk just want to steal their money and enrich themselves has been a favorite tactic of politicians of widely varying political leanings around the globe. Why?

Because it’s true.

BigBlock440 > facw 11/07/2018 at 08:56

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Note though that despite that narrative, states primarily populated by those self-reliant rural types generally receive more fund ing from the federal government than they pay in,

Military bases

Daily Drives a Dragon - One Last Lap > ImmoralMinority 11/07/2018 at 08:58

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Well yes that is a divide, but some of the absolutely ridiculous districts aren’t helping matters.

fintail > atfsgeoff 11/07/2018 at 10:05

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Self reliant = inherit land from family, yeah

CobraJoe > atfsgeoff 11/07/2018 at 10:13

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I grew up in a rural area, and I’m not sure I agree with this:

People who live on big plots of land tend to be mostly self reliant and depend on neighbors/family as a safety net when things go sour. Thus they vote for the people who make promises to keep government as far out of their lives as possible.

First off: Only a small percentage of the rural population in small towns and the surrounding homesteads own big plots of land. Here’s my home county in Nebraska for an example: 570 square miles, a population of 4709. UNL says that the average farm size is 934 acres, so if that average holds true, only 390 people in my home county own signifcant plots of land.

Granted, the average house still sits on more land than my home in Omaha, but a large lawn doesn’t make any money.

Secondly: They might prefer the government to stay out of their lives, but they certainly will take advantage of social aid if they need it. Having helpful neighbors is great, but I wouldn’t count on them to buy your food if you can’t afford it.

Instead, I’d bet that most people are willing to vote for someone who won’t forget about them. Cities are easy to appeal to voters and to take care of when they’re in office, everyone is in one place and all of the necessary social and structural infrastructure is well established.  While Republicans do a pretty bad job of actually working in the rural population’s best interest, they usually remember them during campaign season. 

Quadradeuce > CalzoneGolem 11/07/2018 at 10:15

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40% of Maine’s population lives in the Portland metro area ( 513K out of 1.3M). That skews it a bit.

(I wonder what percentage lives south of Bangor?  Gotta be 80%....)

MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s > atfsgeoff 11/07/2018 at 10:38

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Thus they vote for the people who make promises to keep government as far out of their lives as possible.

Which is what bothers me about the current state of the Republican party...they seem to want to grow government just as much as the Democrats. At least the Democrats practice what they preach for the most part.

CobraJoe > facw 11/07/2018 at 12:35

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Note though that despite that narrative, states primarily populated by those self-reliant rural types generally receive more funding from the federal government than they pay in, while those dense, government-dependent, urban dominated states generally pay in more than they receive in benefits

....

Here’s an article that discusses some of the causes of the disparity: Which States Are Givers and Which Are Takers?

Your generalization isn’t exactly true either. H alf of the states that recieve less than they pay in are sparsely populated “flyover country”

Phyrxes once again has a wagon! > ImmoralMinority 11/07/2018 at 12:56

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Absolutely, here in VA most of the races went about as I expected.  Most of the state is rural and is generally considered to be red.  Most of the suburban/urban areas are blue leaning toward purple for some.

Berang > BigBlock440 11/07/2018 at 13:15

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Not at all.

Berang > BigBlock440 11/07/2018 at 13:25

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Contracting, farming, etc. Texas gets 40 billion in government contracts this year. Another 1.6 billion in farming subsidies. Because nothing says “free market capitalism” like state-funded industry. Texans also complain about “socialism” which makes me laugh.

bubblestheturtle > ImmoralMinority 11/07/2018 at 19:21

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Partisan gerrymandering is going to kill the the 250 yr experiment we call the US.

Berang > MasterMario - Keeper of the V8s 11/08/2018 at 00:10

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If we go by spending, every republican president for the past half century has expanded the government far more than any democratic president.

The whole “limited government” schtick has gotten stale, but suckers are born every minute.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ImmoralMinority 11/08/2018 at 09:08

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Here’s another good illustration of your point, but it is a ethnic  divide along the border. Texas is red, minus Houston, Dallas, Austin, San Antonio and the heavily Hispanic counties near Rio Grande. 

Ash78, voting early and often > ImmoralMinority 11/08/2018 at 09:50

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Quite the opposite here in the Deep South. Western Mississippi is called the Delta and is primarily very poor people of both races, but with a substantial black population. The blue streak in AL is similar — it’s called the Black Belt (due to the fertile soil, but now also due to the demographics, too). SW GA is also extremely rural. All three of these places could resemble parts of the Central Valley where you live, since they were among the original breadbaskets of American expansion (cotton during America’s boom period, but now mostly sorghum, peanuts, etc). A lot of these people are dependent on government programs and, to a certain degree, vote along racial lines.

On the other end of the spectrum is the Southern urban areas...also in many cases democratic and 50%+ black, but surrounded by mostly-white republican suburbs (look at Birmingham, Atlanta, New Orleans, Charlotte, Nashville, etc — tiny blue dots).

I have my theories, but I’m just speaking objectively for my region. As much as we’re considered “solid red” in national elections, at the local and state level things can be pretty hotly contested and create even more divisiveness. CA is the poster child for that concept, but is pretty predictable in terms of “coastal urban” vs “everyone else” (save for Orange County and a few others...)

BigBlock440 > Berang 11/09/2018 at 10:40

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If we go by spending, every republican president for the past half century has expanded the government far more than any democratic president.

Seeing as congress controls the spending, and every republican president has had a democrat controlled congress, with every democrat president having a republican controlled congress, I don’t think that says what you think it says.

Berang > BigBlock440 11/09/2018 at 11:07

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President makes the budget request, not congress.

And currently, with a republican president, and republicans in control of congress, the deficit has been higher under Donald’s first two years than it was under Obama’s last two years. And if it keeps going the direction it is headed, Donald will exceed the worst of the Obama era’s spending.

BigBlock440 > Berang 11/09/2018 at 11:55

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President makes the budget request, not congress.

A request doesn’t mean a thing. And sequestration helped bring Obama’s spending down.

And if it keeps going the direction it is headed, Donald will exceed the worst of the Obama era’s spending.

Darn those rising interest rates.

I agree that spending needs to be reigned in, democrats are not going to do it though.  

Berang > BigBlock440 11/09/2018 at 13:23

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Only one president since the 1960s has turned the deficit into a surplus... and he wasn’t republican.

BigBlock440 > Berang 11/09/2018 at 13:43

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Guess which party had control of congress, the branch that actually controls the spending. Do you honestly think if democrats controlled congress during the Obama administration , spending would have gone down ?  

Berang > BigBlock440 11/09/2018 at 16:02

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Funny, given republicans had the house in 107th congress, and both house and senate in the 108th, and 109th under Bush, and his spending went up, up and up, basically from the moment he was elected until he got booted out.

BigBlock440 > Berang 11/09/2018 at 16:26

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9/11 isn’t really funny, but you do you.

Berang > BigBlock440 11/09/2018 at 17:20

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We didn’t have to go war with Iraq because of 9/11. That was Bush’s deal. That spendy dem house of representatives voted against it. So there you go. Acting like that was a necessary expense is just stupid, particularly in hindsight.